OH, what an excellent topic! And it fits right along with what I've been saying about sacrifice and selflessness in relationships.

I'll try to write about this later.

Hey, this one got me going on yet another of my "pet peeves", so my response is already up here. I'm sure I'll be editing it for days to come yet though.

Hmm... My response is up here.
The gist: Even outside of childrearing, self sacrificing women are idealized. Can we point to the old religious sentiment "obey (and serve) thine husband" as the root? How can we fix the problem?

Ugh... Nevermind people who have two X chromosomes and yet *GASP* aren't champing the bit to add to global overpopulation.

I'll have to think about this one. I'm still having the "motherhood... ew..." emotional reaction.

OK...mine is up here. I feel like it's a bit rambling, but I was busy, um, taking care of my kids.

mine is posted here

*G* well, I really ran off at the mouth on this one. I don't actually think I said anything (even though there is one comment, that I bet I'll get "feed back" on :D)
And I'm already feeling like adding "more" to my statment :)

Well, post posted. I might be one to tack on more, too.

Grrr. I'm all irritated now.

give me a few to write on this one. i too have to take care of my kid.

I just realized that I totally didn't touch on the bifurcation of man v. woman w/r/t sacrificing for children. Which is funny, because my husband does not work outside the home, and when he did he worked a crappy unrewarding job that would be the closest thing to sacrificing for the children that I'd be willing to admit to. hahahahaha.

Updated to include a little something about gender expectations based on sexual orientation.

I've tossed my two cents into the pot, you can read it here.

This is slightly off topic, but occurred to me after reading subversity's comments and thinking about the role of men and parenting in our society.
Men are hurt too by the societal expectations around child rearing. They are de-masculinized when they choose to be the stay at home parent. In custody battles, most courts default to the mother and the father must prove her incompetent to even gain equal custody, rather than a fair evaluation of both parents. Deadbeat dads are a problem, but so are women who abuse the courts for money. I have watched a man get totally screwed by the mother of one of his children. He was poor, she was not, but she was awarded far more then was necessary for raising the kid and far more then he could afford. Granted, he's a terrible (absent) father to all his children, but the same thing happens to caring men.
So basically our culture screws everybody by adhering to stereotypes in childrearing.

I was not going to respond until later this week, but after reading just two responses, I thought I'd better clear up some things, stat. So here I go reminding people not to make assumptions about the experiences other people may have had.

I'll answer the second part later in the week.

See my modern-history-focused rambling here: blog. I've been thinking/reading a lot about the ideals/practice of the American "greatest generation" and how that influences & parallels life today, so of course the question got answered in that context.

I might add more later. I think the loaded nature of the question may have sent us in more directions than intended, but this has been one of the most informative threads, for me at least. ;)

I decided to post something here I posted in a response on my own blog. "... I enjoy the collab topics so much. Even if we don't agree with the questions, or each other, I think the combined effort of everyone together makes much more than the individual posts. I think it would be interesting to try to combine all of the answers into a larger "paper" and see what we come up with. Maybe someday when i have time. But then, lately, that would mean never." And I mean that. I was amazed at the diversity and depth of the responses to this question. I think it would make an excellent overall paper.

I finally gathered my thoughts together (major feat) and posted a response on my blog. There simply is not enough room here to say all I needed to say.

*ahem* If anyone has suggestions to make or off-topic comments, why not use the We Have Brains msgboard (located beneath the tiara) for that.

We need more selflessness and sacrifice,
more martyrs, cooks and cleaners. "Tie your shoes".

"Take out the trash", "Go brush your teeth", I'll lose
my temper soon, and you'll be sorry! Vice

no longer comes to play here, virtue sings
her songs upon my window pane. This cross

is just to heavy, dear, and yet it's loss
would leave me empty in its absence. Bring

me martyrs, mothers, victims, and their life
I'll take into my soul, and make their pain

my own. For I'm a blood soaked icon, just
a patriarchal relic. Now I must

get back to work - for sonnetry is vain
amusement, for a lowly servant wife.

From my latest post After reading, and truly enjoying, everyone’s posts about Marianismo, I feel compelled to write another post. The last time I wrote, I tried to generalize. This time I am going to be specific, about my own specific experiences, and see if it comes off any different. So this may, or may not, be a response to the topic, but that’s never stopped me from writing before and I’m sure it will not in the future. read more...

I managed to be topical. Go me

Wahoo! I got my sister Bonnie to respond to your topic (and she did TWO posts about it). I love spreading the word. I think you guys do a great job and keep those little grey cells working! (Though just like children don't grow up to be the person their parents expect, the responses can be not what you expect either.

Bizarre that I was just thinking about this and then I find it being discussed here. In any case, I'll post more of a response next time I update my site.

What I was thinking about was the fact that these Ideals, of the selfless mother figure, extend far beyond actual motherhood and translate into expectations of women as friends, lovers, bosses, etc. - that we're supposed to be understanding, forgiving, etc., even under the worst of circumstances. And when we're not, we're "bitchy" or cold. I've seen this undermine women's own understandings of themselves - making a decision, first, that seems right to them, and then second guessing themselves when they're questioned or accused of "selfishness" in the process.

This had been a frustration of Virginia Woolf's - she calls the phenomenon the "Angel in the House". What's sad to me in thinking about that is the fact that something noticed and struggled against so long ago STILL plagues us today, and is so deeply rooted in our psyche that women can become unraveled just thinking about the fact that some things are supposed to be their "duty" - like putting others first.

Theresa