I don't think the case is that it's more "allowed" there. I think that that living environment is only going to appeal to women who are more rugged. It's not conducive for anyone who needs to be pampered.

The really strong, accomplished women I've known have been so because they had to. Not that "ladies" can't be tough, but poverty will make a woman tough, no matter what her natural inclinations are. The environment in Alaska demands that each individual be able to fend for herself. There's no safety net, no support system for most of them. A hard life creates hard people, in most cases.

I agree with Morgaine. It seems much more likely that the kind of women who choose to live in Alaska are going to be tough and not "ladylike," so they have created their environment that way, rather than asserting themselves within the already existing sexist environment.
This topic makes me wonder about male/female sexual relationships. It seems like when strong, rugged males accept independent, equally strong/rugged females it's as "one of the boys," rather than as a woman on her own turf. So how does this affect the sexual lives of Alaskan heterosexual women? Would Alaskan men have developed some strange version of a virgin/slut complex, perhaps a ladylike/strong complex?

I think that Alaskan culture is accostomed to more independent, self-sufficient women than in other states of the nation because of its harsh environment (which was harsher still for pioneer women, who cooked, cleaned, gave birth and cared for the sick all without any modern medicine, comfort, or technology). It would be interesting, as an anthropologist, to study the subcultural norms of Alaska. Because the women are traditionally so independent and self-sufficient, it could be considered rude to ask to carry a woman's packages or treat her like a delicate, breakable "lady." Men may have a higher regard and respect for women in the Alaskan subculture because they have always known women who were strong and able to complete any task of their own accord. Sexism may be less commonplace if the women are more willing to take men to task over it (verbally or physically). It'd be interesting to investigate.

my brief post is up ...

i am no expert on alaska, not by a long shot. i've been there twice - once on a cruise and once visiting friends in the middle of nowhere.

and while i agree, women in alaska's harsh climate are more rugged and have fewer problems roughing it, i wouldn't say alaska goes too far into "female empowerment."

women in construction jobs and hiking boots and playing traditionally masculine roles may be the rule, but it's out of necessity. the population of alaska is so small compared to its landscape, that anyone who CAN work DOES. and if you can't work, get out of the way so someone else can get it done, since you probably won't last very long there anyway. gender roles are still alive and well though - they're just behind closed doors.

of the women i've known in my lifetime, a sad and sickening percentage of them have faced and dealt with various types of abuse for no reason beyond that of their gender. "you're a girl so i can disempower you by doing this," so to speak. i'd say at least 60%. but when i group my girlfriends into groups, and i look at the group from alaska, the percentage of my female friends from alaska who have faced such types of abuse goes up to almost 84%.

Hmmm....
I must ask a question, springing from something you said and something attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt:

Can someone "disempower" you without your consent?

Took forever, but I finally have my rant, er, response up here

OK, THIS discussion I HAVE to jump in. I feel as though I should dispell a few myths from people who are living at least 1ooo miles away and up to 4000 miles away. I think I know a bit about Alaska as I LIVE HERE IN ALASKA.
---This one is funny but I gotta say it: Women who live in Alaska do shave. Not all of them and not if they don't have to. When it's time to dress up they are just as elegant as women from the "lower 48".
---People in Alaska tend to be of a hardier stock as you have to endure the harsh winters. The Coastal areas have weather much like Massachusetts. I am from Boston. First I lived at Ft. Richardson (in Anchorage). It gets cold there, but not much worse than Boston in winter. Now I live in Nome. We live here on the Berring Sea where the OCEAN FREEZES for about 6 months out of the year. The interior gets really cold (20-50 below F) in winter. What is challenging is the LONG DARKNESS. See, we are closer to the Arctic circle. At Ft. Richardson we got about 20 hours of darkness in winter. And the sunlight you get is more like dusk. In Nome its like 22 hours of darkness. The good news is that in summer the opposite is true. 2 am in the morning in June you can read a newspaper outside.
---Alaskan woman are very "lady like" when the mood suits them. Clothing differences are due to both cultural traditions and that it never gets above 60 (except in the interior).
---Women here take "traditionally men's jobs" because the pay scale up here is much higher. See, in Alaska everything costs more. In winter milk is like $6 a gallon. Why? Well, lol, aint to many cows up here grazing, ya know? So everything has to be barged and/or flown to the towns and villages. Consequently the standard of living is much higher as everything costs more. Also, with the small population of Alaska the thinking I have seen is: if you can do the job, you get hired. There is not enough people to have the "social traditions" of the "lower 48" get in the way.
--- On person mentioned: "which was harsher still for pioneer women, who cooked, cleaned, gave birth and cared for the sick all without any modern medicine, comfort, or technology" Ummm, the PEOPLE (men are people too) lived a more austere life. Men and women had to be partners to live. When one person is doing one job the partner has to do the other. The men were not living with servants to wait on them hand and foot. Any discussion like that is made by someone living thousands of miles away with no concept of the REAL TEAMWORK that couples had to have, and still must have, who live here. Just hearing that idea makes me chuckle.
---This one I gotta address also:"So how does this affect the sexual lives of Alaskan heterosexual women? Would Alaskan men have developed some strange version of a virgin/slut complex, perhaps a ladylike/strong complex?" -- umm, whoever can do the job gets it done. Male or female. There is no "virgin/slut" complex (WHERE DO YOU GET THIS!? -- lol). The women here can be hard working women and lady like. They are fully developed human beings who share the work and are just as feminine as their "lower 48" counter parts.
Folks, sitting in a dorm room speculating about things is all well and good, and before I got to Alaska (5 years ago) I might have fallen into many of the mental/idealogical pitfalls you have fallen into. We, here in Alaska, live a different lifestyle. It's just different due to climate and the lack of large cities. Don't try to force a template of thought from the "lower 48" on us that simply doesn't exist for us. Come and see for yourselves. Great summer internships and jobs up here could fund your trips. The land is pristine and beautiful. The people are a bit more "simple" because up here you live in the same town all your life and your word is your bond (or not) and its just that.
I hope what I have written is helpful. If you wish to E-mail me, feel free.

Oh, yes, we DO have cable/satelite TV and cable internet (THANK GOD!!!!!). It's a God-send in winter. Thank you for reading my thoughts.
Steven B

Steven,

I don't think anyone is "forcing a template" as you've said. Additionally, the title was kind of a joke. I didn't personally go and examine every female's armpits (how would that have been received?). My point was that in Alaska, women had the sense to dress comfortably, whereas in my home state (CT), ladies often walk around in heels and a skirt in freezing temps or rainy weather because...well, I'm curious about the Why of this myself.

I was hoping that the person who made the virgin/whore speculation would elaborate on that a bit because I also did not see where she was coming from or going with that. Since this site is about conversation/dialogue, maybe we can talk about this some. (Personally, I agree with you on this in that I have no idea of how to apply virgin/whore to the perception of women living in alaska...but maybe someone can clarify at least where she was going with this thought.)

kerri

Kerri,
Ok I think I must have used words that make more of a hit on your radar than mine. Mea Culpa. Not intentional. I was trying to make a point that many people will tend to sit in dorm rooms intellilectualize about things a bit much. Guessing about what life is like in Alaska and specifically the women is a mistake we can all make. People who have been here realize its a very unique culture. I did not mean to nor do I want to disrespect your opinion. Not what I was trying to do.
Steven B

About the virgin/slut thing (I think that was me). I actually didn't say that Alaskan men have said complex... Rather, I was using that well known notion as a point of comparison. I was idly trying to expand upon the topic, letting my thoughts wonder, and it occurred to me that in some of the groups that I personally know where there is a strong, independant woman, she gets blended in as "one of the guys." Most of the time they prefer to be around her, but they de-sexualize her (or, more accurately, de-romance her, as they might engage in casual sex with these women), and go for the femme when they look for a mate.
This is just a phenomenon I had observed in certain groups where I'm from. I've never been to Alaska, and I don't mean to presume about the actual people there. I was responding to a written topic, and abstracting it into speculation because I couldn't respond from experience. I shouldn't have used the virgin/slut complex to get the idea of a dichotomy in personality types across, because obviously it pushed too many strange buttons for people to address the rest of the sentence, and see that it began with "some strange version of..." and ended with "ladylike/strong."

megan, you needn't apologize re the whole "virgin/slut" thing - i thought it was a rather clever speculation and quite funny. if icons of femininity and masculinity in a culture (or in this case subset of a culture) were different than what we consider the norm, it makes some sense that what we sexualized might be different from the norm, too.

April - thanks.

Hello everyone! Having read some of the comments listed on the board I would like to take this opportunity to share with you my thoughts and experiences of Alaska. My 15 years of living in Alaska persented me with many challenages and opportunitys. Looking back I can honestly say my time in Alaska, on a personal level was both exciting and rewarding. There was never a dull moment!
When I first landed in Alaska I went to work in hunting and fishing camps (my choice). ( I grew up in the ciy). Here in these camps I hauled water, cooked, made bread from scratch and didn't have a bath from spring bear season ( March until June 3, 1983. Just like the Pioneer Women! I bathed daily out of a bucket of water! Then my next " Alaskan Experience" was with Era Aviation where I worked as a Fight Attedant. I loved the job but due to ear problems I was told I had to find other work. No problem ...Era transfered me to Bethel, Ak where I ran the crew house and worked at the terminal. In Bethel I worked 4 weeks on/ and two weeks off. How many people in the lower 48 can say they have a schedule like that? After leaving Bethel I went traveling to the South Pacific. After 3 months of R&R in the South Pacific...I flew back to Alaska. I then went to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska..... where I worked construction....first as a welders helper and then an expediter ( I drove a truck and hauled material for the oil companies). And just because I worked these jobs didn't make me any less a woman then working in a bank. Yeah, I might have worn jeans and steeled toed boots but I loved my JOBS! I ask you how many women in the lower 48 can say they love their job and life? In fact while on R&R from Prudhoe I would make an appointment at the spa at the Captian Cook Hotel. It's there I would treat myself to a massage and facial... just like any other woman in the lower 48!
While workinging the "bush" I even shopped at Nordstroms!
My girfriends in Alaska are pilots, with major airlines & commuter air services. One girlfriend was even Chief Pilot for a air taxi service in Bethel.....this small air service was run by all women! From the pilots to the ground crew! Oh, I almost forgot the Chief Pilot ..she did hire one male pilot. Plus she went on to work for a major airlines. Now she's a Captain and has flown around the world. Another friend is a commerical fisher woman with an all male crew ( she owns her own boat). I have women friends ( married and single) who are ticket agents with Alaska Airlines....Flight Attendants..... artist, an account( she lives 8 miles up Crow Creek Mountain in Girdwood, Alaska...where she gets her electricity from a generator. Yes, she has a washer and dryer! She's marrried ( her husband works in Prudhoe). In fact I was married at her house.
As for people not having any running water or toilets in Anchorage, Girdwood, Kenai, Seward, Fairbanks and many places in between.....is moose-pucky! My house in Girdwood had running water, everything!
No, Anchorage might not be Boston, Atlanta, or L.A. But we call it a mini- Seattle....Did you know Anchorage and Girdwood ( at Alyeaka Ski Resort) have restaurants that are 5 stars? And one restaurant in Anchorage has one of the best wine lists in the world!
And just because a girl or guy wears hiking boots and carharts..say while shopping in Nordstorms...(the sales people do wear the latest styles)...
.....the sales people would never think...Yuck, look what their wearing! I don't want to wait on those people! You know the attitude... in the larger cities in the lower 48...It's what you wear NOT WHO YOU ARE!
A lot of people say we don't have major league sports, well, their wrong! We hop on an airplane and were in Seattle in a little over 2 hours and we're watching major league baseball, football or basketball. So you see Alaska isn't as backwards as everybody thinks. It's really up to the individual to get out of life what ever he can get.. where ever when even ever. PS...To Steven B. you are right on with your response. I know what you mean when you say people sit in their dorm rooms and think they know all about another state or country without having lived there! You can't just visit some place for 10 days and all of a sudden become an expert!
And yes, I agree with you it does take "Teamwork" or the buddy system to live in Alaska. Something that is lacking in the lower 48.
I also wanted to mention I have been to Nome while flying out to the Wulick River which is 150 miles above the Arctic Circle....My life now? Well, after leaving Alaska I lived and worked in Costa Rica where we owned a finca, Sport Fishing Hotel Eco-Lodge. Now we're writing screenplays.......

To risk repeating myself, Kay and Steven, I did say right in the post, "I cannot claim to be an expert on the subject, by any means, but I did make a few observations. " I noted what I saw. My experience was not relevant to everyone else's, but that does not mean it is a lie by any means. That is why I opened this up for discussion...I was curious about how others from more remote areas perceive women's rights in their area.
A second thing...I don't live in a dorm room. That is quite the stereotype. I encourage all to read participants blogs at length before jumping to conclusions about anyone's personal lives or situations.
Someone brought up a point recently about how patriarchy does not exist. Okay, perhaps where you live and in your experience, it is not prevalent, but that is not the experience of everyone. We come from different places, and I believe that is the idea of having a discussion. Rather than rule out something because you have not personally lived it, consider that others may have experiences foreign to you.
Which again, is why I posted about this "no ladies..." topic with the tongue-in-cheek title.

I have read the statements written about the women of Alaska and I was able to find some humor and ignorance at the statements that some of you have made about so many women in one region. The plain and simple fact is that Alaska women are no different then the women of the lower 48. No matter what State, City or Town you are in a female makes choices of dress based on many things, such as climate, comfort, income and more. It isn't what one is wearing that makes her a lady. It isn't even if she shaves her pits or legs. You can shave all those area, dress up and still not be a lady, or you can be in work boots, torn jeans and a t-shirt and present the image of being one. You can't know this by only observing them for a few short days. The only way to tell if someone is a lady is to get to know them regardless of location or profession. I lived in Alaska for a year, and currently am making plans to move back. I grow up in Washington state and have lived in many of the towns and cities there and have traveled to other States and bottom line been around many women and some were ladies and some weren't. You only find who is who by getting to know them.

So, then maybe it would be important for you to define what you idea of a "lady" is. Like I said, ad nauseum, my topic was mostly written tongue-in-cheek, and terms like "lady" are ones which I usually use sarcastically.

But as I have seen too often online, people just don't read previous comments in depth before making their own. The repetition gets frustrating.

I lived in Alaska for 30 years and recently moved to Indiana ( I am 33 next month) and well your right "ALASKA GIRLS DO KICK ASS" the sticker is 100% correct. We Alaska women can manage without men, don't get me wrong, men are nice but NOT necessary! I love ALASKA and miss it terribly, I will return HOME again.....