a rose by any other name
My first topic! I'll keep it short and to the point, and post my own opinion about it on my blog.
If you are married, did you take your husband's last name? Or, if you're unmarried, do you plan to take your husband's last name? Why or why not?
If you did not take your husband's last name, have you ever had any problems because of it?
How about Mrs.? Are you, will you ever, be "Mrs." anyone, or is "Ms." the only title you will will ever take?
And of course, for men, do you want your wife to take your last name, and why or why not?
In general how do you think this naming thing should be handled? Last names, children's names, etc.
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your comments : post a new comment
This is, obviously, a matter of personal choice, and I wouldn't say no woman should ever take her husband's name. But to me, replacing the name you have always been called by with the name of your husband is symbolically identical to incorporating yourself into his identity.
More at my diary.
Posted by: Lauren on October 26, 2003 01:32 PM |
I'm an unmarried 22-year-old, and though I've always considered myself a good feminist, I have to say that my married name decision will probably be mostly based on aesthetics, rather than politics. I don't dislike my last name, but I'm not incredibly attached to it either. If my future husband has a particularly unfortunate last name, I'm not going to saddle myself with it, but if it's better than my current one, I'll go ahead and take it.
And, as far as the "giving up your identity in exchange for your husband's" issue, most of us have our fathers' last names anyway, so it's really a choice between your father's name, and your husband's name. My half-sister, who hasn't seen her father since she was 11, can't wait to get rid of her last name. Maybe we should all just start making up our own last names?
Posted by: Maya on October 26, 2003 01:48 PM |
My post here. I touch on same-sex partners, adopted children, and the disdain for carrying around a lastname that is not entirely my own. Written from the point of view of a 24 year old queer female who is eager to get divorced.
Posted by: Kerri on October 26, 2003 02:00 PM |
I like the Mrs. Dalloway bit that Lauren brought up on her diary. I wondered if someone might touch on that. Good points all around; I incorporated some of the things you guys had already said in my own respone.
Today's topic led to a fun conversation with my partner wherein he decided [facetiously!] to have his first name changed to "Big Ol" (ol' being southern for old) and put my last name first in the hyphenated list in the event we decide to get married at some point.
So, thanks for provoking thought and laughter, Vic.
Posted by: april on October 26, 2003 07:59 PM |
At the moment, I live in one of the only four states left that require a woman to take her husband's name.
I don't expect ever to be married, but if I were, I would remain a Ms.
I wouldn't change my name unless there were a compelling reason.
If I had children, they'd be more likely to have my name, or a hyphenate.
Posted by: Morgaine Swann on October 26, 2003 09:46 PM |
Mines up, here. Names are important. I have a first name which is my name, and secondly, I have a family name, which is equally important. These names describe who I am as an individual and an important group that I am part of. I have a lot more to say on my blog. Go read it there.
Posted by: Subversity on October 26, 2003 09:56 PM |
"I think a child should be allowed to take his father's or mother's name at will on coming of age. Paternity is a legal fiction." --James Joyce
Or any name he or she chooses for that matter, whenever he or she 'comes of age'.
Posted by: amy king on October 26, 2003 10:00 PM |
My response is here; I forgot to mention how much I dislike double-barrelled names. It's a class thing that probably wouldn't apply if I weren't British, but I find them pretentious and clumsy.
Posted by: the absent student on October 27, 2003 08:40 AM |
Finally got my own response up here
Posted by: Vic... on October 27, 2003 09:15 AM |
[i should write this on my site, but i'm away and not updating. sorry april.]
a few people mentioned the double-standard that is no male equivalent of "Mrs." should i become married, i wouldn't mind a change from "mister" to "misters" [as miss is to misses, you see] or whatever else they came up with. i don't such a title being invented at this point in time though.
having studied a few languages, and my affinity for the french "Madame" and "Mademoiselle", i do like the option of "Miss" and "Misses". however, i feel no desire to force someone to take a title they do not want.
similarly, should i start a family, i would like for this hypothetical wife [and kid(s)] to take my name. i like the idea that it would declare a unity. also that it would show that we belong to each other.
to assume that just because a family shares a single last name [even if it is known to be the father/husband's], that the family is thereby condoning or conforming to a patriarchical society is just as wrong, i feel, as assuming anyone who calls themself feminist is a lesbian, manhating, hippie weirdo. neither are accurate.
if it has not been clear, my opinion is this.. i don't feel there needs to be a change in naming convention. i feel two people should decide amongst themselves how to handle it. just as i dislike hyphenated names, others may be looking to add more, even with the three they already have. along with many other topics, i don't think this should need to come to any sort of public decision.
Posted by: ryan on October 27, 2003 11:23 AM |
I will always keep my name, I will always be Ms., as far as I'm concerned. The very thought of being Mrs. HisProperty makes my blood boil.
It might be a different matter if the social onus was not always on the woman to change to show her allegiance to him or people both changed their names togethr or something more mutual. But it isn't. Most men don't even consider the idea. "I have the penis, so MY name rules." "We're not a family unless we're the Hislastnames." Makes me want to scream. Changing your name is incredibly bloody confusing, a lot of work, and you do lose your identity when someone is literally calling you something else. Not everyone wants to do that, thanks.
As for my fiance, getting this concept across to him has, alas, been like beating it into his head with a baseball bat. He would be over the moon with joy to be able to proclaim me "Mrs. Hislastname" in public. Mrs. HisProperty, hands off! I feel a bit mean for denying him that joy that he's always wanted, but is it worth it when I'll be gritting my teeth and fuming every time I get called That Name? He still tries to talk me into using his name privately or hyphenating, but come on, two 10-letter-long last names that nobody can spell already? Hah, I think not.
Posted by: Jennifer on October 27, 2003 03:20 PM |
I haven't had a chance to read through everyone's full responses yet, but what I've seen from skimming them has been really interesting. Such a diversity of views! My own opinions on the topic are up here.
Posted by: titilayo on October 28, 2003 08:28 AM |
I've read quite a few mentions of the Fathers name, and I was wondering if anyone asked their mom's what that think of changing their family name to be their Husband's family name? Does anyone here have a non-traditional family name?
Posted by: Subversity on October 28, 2003 08:53 AM |
You can call me Ms. hopefully Dr. someday, but never Miss. I'm not changing my last name, since it is my father's and I'm amazingly close with him. For me, it's a family name. A good friend of mine doesn't stay in contact with her father and has recently decided to make her middle name into her new last name, and then not change that at marriage. She was just going to change it to her would-be husband's but realized that she objected to that ^_^
As far a children go I would ideally have them recieve my last name and mine alone, but they will probably end up with a hypenated last name, which I don't like. I have mixed feelings on that.
Posted by: Brigitte on October 28, 2003 07:50 PM |
I tend to vacillate between keeping my name and taking my future husband's. Mostly I try not to focus on/value too highly the apparent significance of a name.
I elaborate here.
Posted by: Natalie on October 30, 2003 12:24 PM |
Just looked over some of the comments. I have to say that I agree with Maya's point on the aesthetic of a name. My name as it is has a nice "ring" to it. The sound of any possible addition will probably be what ultimately affects my decision to take another name.
And I have to say I just LOVE that Joyce quotation that Amy posted!
Posted by: Natalie on October 30, 2003 04:33 PM |
My response is up here. Summary: Keep my name, keep Ms., hyphenate (but what do you do if one or both of you are already hyphenated?).
Posted by: megan on October 30, 2003 08:10 PM |
I kept my own name because it's prettier than his. Telemarketers ask if I'm Mrs. (his last name) and I tell them they have the wrong number. LOL! Also, much of our junk mail is addressed to my husband, calling him Mr. + MY last name. It's been interesting.
Posted by: Sacha on November 2, 2003 02:43 PM |
I kept my own name because it's prettier than his. Telemarketers ask if I'm Mrs. (his last name) and I tell them they have the wrong number. LOL! Also, much of our junk mail is addressed to my husband, calling him Mr. + MY last name. It's been interesting.
Posted by: Sacha on November 2, 2003 02:43 PM |
I am an unmarried man living with "my girlfriend", who is in an happy polyamorous marriage. We three get along great, and we have for the last few years. I too, am polyamorous, but haven't run into any one else I want to be seriously involved with. So at this point in my life, name changing for marriage isn't a burning issue.
However, when I was single I thought about it quite a bit, and the solution I prefer is to choose new names (either last name or first and last), so both of us would be changing our names. I figure people who know us will know us by name, and the gov'ment only cares about our SSN. It may confuse the geneologists, but that's their problem.
I prefer to avoid the hyphen problem, since my great-great-great-great grandkid will need a PDA to remember his/her name. I dislike the idea of changing my last name to her last name, and the idea of her changing to my last name would push my socially ingrained patriachal buttons, which I would prefer to avoid.
Safely off the beaten path,
Terry.
i just made my way over here, so i haven't had a chance 2 post it on my site yet.
i am engaged and the discussion came up and WE decided that i would be a MRS.HISLASTNAME. Seeing as how i'm taking on a new life, i'll also take on a new name! This shows unity and joining together as ONE!
Posted by: LRT[joy] on November 11, 2003 04:08 PM |
Joy: I respect your decision, but you have to have noticed that he too is starting a new life, yet keeps his name. If you were joining as ONE, why would you both assume his identity instead of a new one? Are you both becoming him?
Posted by: Brigitte on November 11, 2003 08:28 PM |
I am 24, committed to a divorced 35 yr. old man with 2 adolescent children (from his previous marriage), and I have decided to keep my own last name. I am not the children's biological mother and will never be (and besides I do not want to be confused as their mother), and I think there are too many people with the same last name going around anyway. I like my name because it is different and pretty. At the very most, I may add his name while keeping mine, and have a hyphenated surname.
Posted by: Lee D. on November 12, 2003 02:00 PM |
I have my comments up at my site now. It's an interesting topic and one that I've had to think of often - as well, I changed my name. My maiden name caused some problems and so I changed my name when I got married. I'm a Ms. however and will be until I become a Doctor :) Great topic!
Posted by: Alison on November 16, 2003 07:04 PM |
I kept MY name, not my FATHER's name...Marie Taylor is, on my birth certificate, the first and last name of a WOMAN. So let's just face that fact...a woman keeps HER name, not her Dad's or Mom's, etc. If you were changing your name, that would be like saying, I'm taking my future husband's father's last name.
As far as I know...there is not 1 state in the USA that requires you take your husband's last name. That would be against your civil rights. So Morgaine, please check your facts. I believe you referring to the signing of the marriage certificate where as, when you sign it, you automatically change your name unless it is signed a certain way...something like that. Having worked for a family law Atty. I have never heard of any woman being forced to take another name.
I personally do not believe anyone should ever change their name. I personally believe it is sad that a woman wants to. You don't like your name...change it when you are 18, that simple.
But I personally believe everyone has there right to be called whatever they want, whether I think it is ridiculous or not, I'll be the first to honor your wish.
Posted by: Marie Taylor on January 13, 2004 12:05 AM |
I am getting married in 6 months and I am trying to decide whether to hypen my name or not. I never realize how big this topic was.
Posted by: Rebecca Toth on February 12, 2004 11:19 AM |
I'm getting married in about a month (eek!), and I'm keeping my name. I have a friend who recently got married and changed her name to her husband's. I was talking to her about it and she told me that it feels good to "belong" to him. Sorry, not me. We're both individuals with our own names. There's no "belonging" going on with us, not even in names.
Posted by: Kelly on February 27, 2004 11:57 PM |
Kelly I don't wanna correct you but I hope you meant that BOTH of you belong to each other, not that 'no belonging is going on'...
Posted by: Anne on February 29, 2004 03:46 PM |
My husband and I each took one syllable from our "maiden" names and created a new name. We love what we feel it symbolizes, and he particularly likes it because he now has a last name which is not run of the mill like his previous name. Changing our name was not even a hassle because in New York, one can change her/his name simply by writing the new name on the marriage license upon signing it (that means no going to court). There are only 4 states in the U.S. that allow this, however, so I imagine it could be a little bit of a hassle, but we had no problems. Even our banks, etc, had no qualms and didn't even question us on it. We thought it would be more difficult for my husband, but we have yet to be hassled by institutions or acquaintances. Most people actually like it.
Posted by: jeanne on March 28, 2005 06:07 PM |
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